I like an authentic flag as much as the next man (probably even more so, as I am a registered Vexillomaniac :-)). On the Fife and Drum Forum there has lately been some discussion about adding flags to historical wargame units that (as far as we know) probably did not have them. My feeling is that, ultimately, we are playing with toy soldiers here and it is all our version of a fantasy of whatever period we are depicting, and so if we feel like doing so we should add plausible flags. Yes, I know, this is probably heresy, but in the end, for the horse and musket period, we mostly want something that looks good, don't we? I know that at least Willz Harley will agree with me that every unit should have a flag if at all possible. Even Willz's grenadier units carry flags - but they are admittedly ImagiNations units! I have done a number of speculative flags for people over the years for historical armies (e.g. https://nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com/2022/08/speculative-but-plausible-flags-for.html ) and am currently doing some for the French 18th century Chasseurs de Fischers.
I have lately done flags for Lauzun's Legion in the AWI, which I posted on the Fife and Drum Forum and which prompted this discussion; the hussar guidon was carried by the later Lauzun Hussars from 1783-1791 but it seems perfectly possible that something similar might have been carried by the hussars of the Legion in the AWI. If they didn't, they jolly well should have done! ;-) The square standard is suggested for Lauzun's Legion in the AWI by the authors of "Officers and Soldiers of the French Hussars: 1 From The Ancien Regime to the Empire" André Jouineau and Jean-Marie Mongin, after discussion with acknowledged French flag expert Pierre Charrié. By which troops of the Legion it was possibly carried, they do not say.
Anyway, for those who might possibly like these flags, here is the sheet with the guidon and standard:
I look forward to comments! :-)
P.S. I have decided, to give my future French flag production some focus, to do the flags I have already not done for the Battle of Warburg 1760. That means 10 flags to do, including four Swiss and one French-German. That will bring my total of French flags posted on the blog to 100! Hurrah. :-) (Actually, it will be more than that, as for a number of flags I have done variants...)
Couldn't agree more, In my little wargaming world, if I want a flag I get a flag, its a bit like beer!
ReplyDeleteNice flags too!
Thanks, Ray. :-) Sorry your comment was slow appearing; Blogger had put it in Spam and I've only just found it on Christmas Day! Yes, I think there is quite a consensus that we should have flags if at all possible. :-)
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Oddly my Imagi-Nations have grenadier units both with and without flags in different armies; it depends on the background to the army.
ReplyDeleteNeil
That sounds like a wise and discriminating policy! I bet the one with flags think themselves superior to the others, though. ;-) Thanks for commenting.
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
In reality figure not all units did not carry standards. However, we are wargamers and most soldiers would be waaaay scruffier looking than ours. I think it looks great to field flags, and in some cases it helps with unit ID. The flip side of the question is whether every company should have a flag!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Peter. Yes, reading memoirs about e.g the Peninsular British armies does reveal how appallingly tatty they became very quickly. They sound hardly recognisable as soldiers, apart from the muskets! It may be going a little far to give every company a flag, though! :-)
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Plausible works for me everytime, but then I have gone down the Imagi-Nations route, so maybe not best placed to comment!
ReplyDeleteThe steel grey background is a nice contrast to other flags and guidons I've seen and really allows the red and yellow/gold to 'pop'.
Thank you, Steve. As you will know, doing flags for the 18th century all too often involves guesswork; even when we have flag details they are frequently not terribly helpful verbal descriptions. Plausible is often about the best we can do! And I agree that the grey is unusual and creates a nice contrast with the other colours used; it really is quite striking.
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Well, I say live and let live!
ReplyDeleteIf you want your units to carry flags, flag 'em. If not, don't.
My SYW combined grenadier regiments do not carry flags but if someone wants to put flags on the grenadiers, go ahead. As far as using speculative flags, I am all for that.
Units do look more presentable on the gaming table with flags unfurled.
Fine looking Lauzun Legion flags, by the way. If I fielded these units, they would most definitely be carrying your flags.
Thank you, Jon. I agree; it really is entriely up to each wargamer, although as a vexillomaniac I do like units with flags, unhistorical or not! If you decide to add AWI Lauzin's Legion to your many armies, I look forward to seeing them on your battlefields! :-)
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
A question on the guidon, could it have had the distinction color as part of it? Since each of the legions had different colors, white, blue, yellow, for the three legions and red for the HQ. I forget if the fourth legion had a different color or not.
ReplyDeleteThe grey of the standard works as the legion infantry all have grey facings no matter which legion they come from.
Yes, that is certainly a possibility; I would be quite happy to see such distinctions used. We really do not know if Lauzun's Legion carried any flags at all; it is quite likely that they did not.
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Fantastic flags David and thank you for your praise and support. Every unit should have a flag, if we are asking our toy soldiers to face bullets, cannons and swords the least we can do is give them something to fight for. They would win your battles if you don't lead the propally and dice never fall correct if your troops are unhappy.
ReplyDeleteDo not flag with the flags David, fly them high and follow them to glory.
merry Christmas, happy New year and happy gaming to one and all.
Willz.
Thank you, Willz. :-) Absolutely! Lots more flags to come, I hope.
DeleteAnd a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too.
All the best of the Season,
David.
Flag! Definitely. Flags add so much to a unit. even when/if not technically or historically "correct."
ReplyDeleteKind Regards,
Stokes
Thank you, Stokes. I am certainly biased in my feelings about this! :-)
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Colors should always appear with regiments on the Wargames table. I keep getting told that during the American Rev War most units did not carry colors in the field. I answered that my games are more reenactments then simulation and my units all proudly display their colors.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mark. :-) Yes, indeed, I have read much that says the same - but how drab the wargames table would be if we folowed the known (or suspected) facts in these things. In the end we are playing games with toy soldiers, aren't we, and we generally want them to look their best?
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
I think it's a great idea. All my Horse and Musket units have flags.
ReplyDeleteThank you. I think there is a strong consensus here at least that that is the way to go, if one wishes. :-)
DeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Every unit a flag , unless one wishes to be cruel to our lead friends , imho!
ReplyDeleteAlan Tradgardland
Thank you, Alan. Yes, cruelty to our brave troops is the last thing we should consider. :-)
ReplyDeleteAll the best of the Season,
David.
Every unit should have a flag.. and here's another contentious one, they should also be bigger (in scale) than the real one's would have been! :o))
ReplyDeleteThank you, Steve! Absolutely agree. :-) Small cavalry standards especially annoy me at times, particularly if I have designed them, and then see them so small in use much of the detail is lost! Grrrr.
DeleteAll the best of the Season to you,
David.